096: Digital Payment Apps in Trinidad and Tobago | Keron Rose

[00:00:00] the people who run in the conglomerates, the senior managers here, the decision makers,

[00:00:05] the big corporates, they're reading the business section of the newspapers.

[00:00:09] And that's everything right? There's a lot of sentiment versus science.

[00:00:13] Yeah, we have a lot of bias. It's always crazy. Like the amount of people that stop

[00:00:20] me in the streets and be like, hey you're so and so I read your article every Thursday

[00:00:27] and I'm like, damn, but that will never show up anywhere because the people who are watching

[00:00:34] TV, the people who are listening to the radio, the people who are reading the papers might

[00:00:39] never follow you on digital.

[00:00:41] Podcasts will welcome to another episode of The Value, the language of business for those

[00:00:57] of you looking to build or invest in companies that are scalable and highly valuable.

[00:01:04] I'm your host Kevin Valley and today we're talking about digital feelings with somebody

[00:01:10] who's definitely not a stranger to the podcast. Somebody has been on the podcast for one,

[00:01:15] two, three, four times. In 2018 we did two episodes of them on Let's Talk Mobile in 2019.

[00:01:24] We did an episode on digital entrepreneurship. In 2020 we had a feature alongside Dr.

[00:01:31] Shalian Gajada as we spoke about the insider's guide to digital business and most recently

[00:01:37] this year 2023 he had me on the radio. I was on the radio guys we were talking on the

[00:01:43] digital world radio show and I was interviewed by digital marketing and e-commerce specialists,

[00:01:49] podcast hosts, radio show hosts, newspaper and TV guest contributor,

[00:01:55] did you print your and busy boss?

[00:01:57] Katrod Rums!

[00:02:04] Did you brought this out?

[00:02:09] Welcome to The Value, my brother. How are you doing?

[00:02:12] I'm good man. I'm good. How have you been man?

[00:02:15] How have you been?

[00:02:16] I've been good man. I've been good.

[00:02:18] It's such a blessing man. It's such a blessing to see your journey

[00:02:24] and to have such a close look at it because I know you and I were connected originally in 2018.

[00:02:30] We did that podcast and we said pretty close ever since. You help me get that become

[00:02:35] an investment website off the ground. You've been on each other's platforms a number of times.

[00:02:41] Yeah man, it's been so great to see how all your brand has grown and how your focus has grown over the years.

[00:02:50] When we met you were talking about mobile, you know, your Mr. Droid,

[00:02:54] you were selling Android phones, you told everybody in the Caribbean what Huawei is, how to spell it.

[00:03:03] And then in 2019, it seemed like you pivoted a little bit. You said all right.

[00:03:08] I'm no longer Mr. Droid. Forget that. I am now digital entrepreneur.

[00:03:13] You even changed your last name. You know, so you even changed your last name.

[00:03:24] If anyone's a hairboat, that journey could check out episode 55.

[00:03:28] It's called digital entrepreneurship 101 but Karen, yeah man, talk to us about that journey into the digital marketing and e-commerce space.

[00:03:37] What inspired you to go into that space? What inspired you to start covering folks like the We Pays and the first Atlantic companies of this world?

[00:03:46] Man, well, first and foremost, thank you for having me. And it's just crazy to even hear that you know, we have been doing work together since 2018.

[00:03:57] That feels like just yesterday but at the same time a long time ago because so much has happened in between.

[00:04:05] So that's really dope. But how we got into where we are at today has really been because of the people like legitimately because of the people I was mining my business talking about smartphones and technology and teaching people about that.

[00:04:22] And to be honest, I was good there right? I mean, I've been in the comic space since I was 19.

[00:04:27] And I've always enjoyed technology and whatnot. And in building the droid island brand, having to learn web development, having to learn SEO, to build my blogs and learning how to get my message across and gain visibility when I wanted to start to sell the products I had to learn how to sell online.

[00:04:50] I had to brick and mortar store. But when I was creating all the content and getting the brand deals to create content and do workshops, I realized I was not really in the store anymore.

[00:05:01] And I needed to be I was everywhere else except for the store and then closing the store people still kept asking how would how to buy the product. So I had to learn e-commerce.

[00:05:11] I had to go deeper into digital marketing to be able to sell online and all of these things. So in learning about e-commerce, right?

[00:05:19] There was no one we were talking about this before but the lack of information to do anything in the Caribbean is astounding. Right? It is absolutely astounding.

[00:05:29] There was almost no information on how to really build your brand digitally online in the Caribbean. It's different because the tools, the platforms, how things work are different in the Caribbean, how to sell online. There was almost no information, almost none.

[00:05:46] Matter of fact, it was not. Right? And I had to network with all the players that were that had a tool with respect to e-commerce.

[00:05:56] I had to personally network with these people to get information and go to the entire process myself. So once I went to the process, once I got my brand online and my business website was there and you were able to purchase products online through credit cards, through the pay wide system.

[00:06:15] When I was doing all this, I made a system. Sorry. Pay wise. Okay. Yeah. Pay wise. Right? So when I was so in learning everything right. It got to the point where people were noticing people seeing the brand, right?

[00:06:32] What people started to ask me more questions about, hey, how did you build a website? How are you selling online? How are you taking credit card payments?

[00:06:42] How are you able to sell via the lot of booth? How are you doing all these things? Who is doing it? Who is not this important? And I had to tell everybody. I'm like, I built everything. Like I had to build everything from scratch. I had to get all the information.

[00:06:56] I'm putting everything together for myself. There is nobody else. And people just kept asking the, how? How are you doing this? How are you doing this? And it got to a point where coming into 2019. So December 2018 for my birthday. I launched caronrose.com to start talking about just my entrepreneurship journey moving from Canada coming to the Caribbean and doing my thing.

[00:07:21] But going into 2019, the questions of how I built the business, the nuts and bolts of the business. Everything related to online. That started to outpace the questions I was getting about, hey, I want to buy a smartphone. What's the best phone for me and blah, blah, blah.

[00:07:38] So instead of using my platform to talk about my personal journey or whatever, I started to use that platform to put all the e-commerce and marketing information onto the public on that channel. And that was like almost like a new lease on life because the traffic from droid alley while that was good.

[00:08:01] The traffic from to the caronrose website really grew and what solidified the change for me was I remember this one particular gentleman stopping me in Starbucks. You know, we used to sit on a Starbucks and I remember a guy stopped me in Starbucks. And this man just pulled me inside his weight.

[00:08:27] I was like, yeah, he's like, no, I got to buy you a coffee. We need to talk. And I was like, all right, well, okay, cool. So we sat down and he starts telling me about the problems that he's been having. How he had to he lost his house. The business was going belly up because he's been in the red. He can't afford it.

[00:08:46] And he's like, he watched a video that I did talking about. We pay and e-commerce and PayPal. And he was able to figure out how to start getting paid from companies or clientele outside the Trinidad.

[00:09:05] And homeboy sort of breaking down crying because he's like, yo, you saved my life. He's like, you that information that you put out saved my life. I don't know where I was going because we're just about to lose the house. The business is going belly up and that information to start getting paid from outside from outside clients changed everything for me.

[00:09:28] Nobody has ever told me something that impactful in droid island. Nobody ever said to me, hey, you know, the phone that you told me about is my life. If you're happy, never ever never had never came close, never came close.

[00:09:47] And I've had some stories of droid like I remember like the most the create the craziest store with droid island was like somebody lost their parents and their phone had crashed. And they had no idea how to get the pictures they had taken of the last moments of losing their of losing their parent, right?

[00:10:07] And helping them brought them to tears, but that was because that specific moment right with e-commerce. The stories that people come to me with it's a lot of them are really life and death situations because we're talking about changing people's life 100% 100% that's why I love business so much as business as opposed to mean all right. So from the entrepreneur standpoint, yes, going to put some more money in my pocket at me.

[00:10:34] Let me provide for my family, provide for myself and also to provide for other people by creating jobs. Yeah, it's creating jobs. And I think because there's such a there's such a gap with respect to the information available about online business e-commerce digital marketing but from our perspective.

[00:10:54] This was definitely a way bigger gap for me to fill and you know, again, I went into the comms since I was 19 or 36 now. I'm at that point in my life where I'm like I could write I don't really care about phones like I did back then now if I if I'm looking at a phone is just a good phone for me.

[00:11:12] I don't care to talk about it but in the space that we're in now where again there's a huge gap. There's a huge opportunity and the impact that we can make with what we are doing is a million times bigger than before. It made it was hard to make the switch because it was a point in time where I was like, you know, I'm not exactly sure what I want to do yet.

[00:11:31] I don't know if I want to go left. I don't know if I want to go right but when I did decide, you know what we're going to go right. We're going to double down on this. I've just answered the call and you know, everything's been working out.

[00:11:43] Yeah, you know, funny enough me and we think about e-commerce as something that is somewhat new in the region right but but according to a corporate finance institute e-commerce is something that came about

[00:11:58] as a business. Physically in 1990s slash early 2000s right. Yeah, exactly. There's a wrong that sign on the dot com dot com bubble and all these things when you see that internet and mobile technologies began to transform the financial services industry right and you the rise of e-commerce actually creates a need for secure and efficient online payments and that and since then that has formed the bedrock for for everything you've seen evolve since then so we're going to be it more bad banking.

[00:12:27] Digital wallets know you mean you have things like blockchain and crypto and defiant all these things which we'll cover another in another podcast. Well, all these things that came about since then, you know, you know, fun enough after I interviewed you in 2019 I interviewed one Mr. Orin Wayne of we P and after the interview here and I was chatting and you're seeing you know.

[00:12:53] I know I tell Karen this will be a fun thing is always the time you need to be talking about fintech. He needs to be talking about fintech I tell this I'll talk more fintech.

[00:13:07] I'm a sound like him.

[00:13:10] I'm not saying I was very true like I mean if it's one day with Aldrin Aldrin from from day one, I think he is he is definitely always seen something in me.

[00:13:23] And I remember we were I think we were prepping for we for we day 2019 and I remember we were we were in his car we were driving over to the high it and he just look in the conversation he was like listen.

[00:13:36] He's like we're always going to need each other he's like what I'm doing is I'm creating the tools.

[00:13:41] He's like your job now is to educate he's like that's a gift and not everybody has not everybody can can do knowledge transfer not everybody can break it down and get people to use the tools and see it from different.

[00:13:52] He's like that's your space is that we're not focused on the teaching is like but you know we're always going to be and it just so happens that you know it's it's just kind of always kind of float like that.

[00:14:02] Yeah for real for real alright so if it's to continue the evolution story thanks to corporate finance institute.

[00:14:09] Alright so to late 90s early 2000s as e-commerce more bad banking you know funny enough when I was reading that I thought back to my time and as a bank talent RBC as a bank talent RBC between December 2005 until July 2006 when I left to go to Jamaica to study banking and finance.

[00:14:31] Right that man that's another story but I remember during that time RBC was looking to launch its online banking while RBTT at the time was looking to launch its online banking platform called net bank was a net banking RBC RBTT net bank anyway they had and they had his competition where okay the most people they put the tables able to get the most sign ups is going to win 25 thousand dollars now I didn't win you know I didn't win big up T. J. J. J. I remember that but I'm not going to do it.

[00:15:00] But but yeah I just I'm reading that you might me of that period you know of course the crypto in regional resources a little bit of a lag when it comes to North America and you know developed will or first will come to part.

[00:15:14] But when you think about digital wallets and mobile payments we're talking about it to 2010s so the pay piles of this will and eventually the Apple Pay some some paid Google wallets and that sort of thing.

[00:15:29] But any region no in the region we have you have things that well you eventually had pay wise but what we had we pay when it we become about was it was it early 2017 or so but Karen you've created a lot of content around actually enabling career man entrepreneurs to get paid by a PayPal.

[00:15:50] How would I feel to this me of course you could check out the video when they're ready but how if you just give give a quick one minute lesson all right if you want if you want to enable.

[00:16:00] Payments from anybody anyway any will through PayPal how would you do that yeah I think the first the first thing I would say to anybody is you kind of have to learn the differences between PayPal or pay wise or everything some of the other solutions because PayPal is not always the best solution for you right.

[00:16:18] I ironically as much as people you know run down PayPal they don't always taking a consideration that it might not be the best solution and the reason I say that is because if you using PayPal it's the most expensive solution so it's five points.

[00:16:33] And you would be is this so much yeah 5.5% per transaction right okay.

[00:16:42] Per transaction and then not everybody not every account is able to withdraw the funds immediately some of them might have to wait 30 days for PayPal to only give you the automatic transfer to top of the month and then there's some accounts that PayPal just doesn't allow you to withdraw funds all together right and then if things do happen if they do go sideways if you do have to query something.

[00:17:04] You don't have local support and you have to deal with whatever PayPal gives you right so PayPal is not always the best solution however the reason why it's covered so much is because PayPal is a gold standard of payments worldwide.

[00:17:19] And if you are working for companies and this is a big one and so I'm mentioning it if you are working for companies that pay remote workers or they pay freelancers or you have clients from our different parts of the world and they're using PayPal.

[00:17:32] The reason why you might not use a we pay or first it's not to come or some of the other platforms is because they might not be paying you with a credit card PayPal allows people to connect their bank accounts so if you're dealing with a institution or company who is not paying with a credit card they're paying you out of their bank accounts.

[00:17:53] Then you can't use any other tool you'd have to use PayPal and just get hit with the 5.5% right so that's again just putting it out there for people now if you want to use PayPal in your intern of that you are going to have to have a visa debit card and with these but with these with these institutions either Jm and B PSC you credit union Ryan credit union venture credit union or a visa credit card.

[00:18:23] Credit card from any institution except RBC because RBC went out of the way to block PayPal transactions right for whether it yeah they went out of the way to block it right if you have a links debit card a links visa debit card from any institution links not work with PayPal whatsoever right so you're only limited to those institutions and once you get the visa debit card from the bank account.

[00:18:53] You're not going to go and PayPal and link a bank account you're going to link a card there's people always go to link a bank account thinking they're going to use their banking their bank account number no you're going to be linking your visa debit card number that's what you would go and connect once that is connected from any one of those banks you're going to be able to when money comes in you're going to be able to see withdraw and you'll see your bank your credit card or your visa debit card as an example.

[00:19:23] And then you can get an option to withdraw those funds other thing I would mention is that I lost my train of thoughts but it'll come back to me.

[00:19:33] No, you're talking about oh you remember good yeah so the other the other thing is that you could also use you could also use why so there's why service where you can where you can create a virtual bank it's an additional step but why is would let you deposit those forms to any bank account number.

[00:19:52] Any bank account regardless of type what I had forgotten that just that just came back to me was when you are going to Jmmb or any of those banks they only give all visa debit cards on personal accounts.

[00:20:05] They do not give all these debit cards on business accounts so if you are somebody who wants to get paid and the funds going to your business account you're better off using wise so that why is because why is can distribute the funds they wire transfer the funds to any bank account personal.

[00:20:21] Or checkings or business accounts so if you want the money going into your business account set up a wise account money would go from PayPal to your wise virtual bank account and then why is would then transfer the money to your business account.

[00:20:36] Yeah, that's wise calm right yes yeah and I saw from your from your content that the fee wise charges actually quite reasonable it's something like $3.29 US.

[00:20:48] Are they raised that I think they raise it two times I think the second type of reason was just last week so yeah they raise it to like I won't be able to find it at the drop of now but they raise that fee on its a bit more but this is this is my thing right what I tell people.

[00:21:08] Regardless of whatever the fees you don't have options.

[00:21:13] You know what I have options so regardless of whatever the fees when people tell me because they say this in all the time nah that's too expensive I'm not going to do e-commerce I'm not going to put my business online.

[00:21:28] That's that is the extreme that people say. Oh that's the one I'm not going to do it so isn't that you're going to you're not going to have your business online people have to pay you in cash yes.

[00:21:42] All right.

[00:21:47] In that list with if you have a personal or business accomplished coach about what you be able to get today have that visa card that allows you to get paid for your paper.

[00:21:58] So that member their visa debit cards are with links or scotches links okay.

[00:22:04] But you could use you could use their scotche of visa credit card so you could use visa credit card from any bank except RBC but the problem with using a visa credit card right if you have nothing else then sure no problem but I would tell anybody just go open a bank account go open the jm and be back like I only have jm and be to get my pay palm money to then send to my other bank that I use right just go open a bank because when you use a visa credit card.

[00:22:33] For one you have a limit as to how much money your visa credit card can hold if you go if you have an overage like if your limit is $5,000 and you go load up the card with $6,000 the banks charge you an overage fee.

[00:22:50] They charge you a percentage and it's like every bank is different but like FcB hit me a 3% overage fee for having more money whatever the amount was they charged me 3% of however much money was over and I had to pay that and it was like $600.

[00:23:07] Okay big boy.

[00:23:09] I'm just saying I'm saying that to pay the picture of the fees are high right so you have the overage fee but then let's just say if you want cash then when you go put your visa credit card into the bank you're getting charged a cash advance fee.

[00:23:28] So you're getting a bank and then to make it worse we're in Trinidad so you don't know everybody who has a links terminal they're looking at you like is that a visa debit card or is that a credit card because when they're transacting business if it's a visa debit card they pay $0.75 per transaction once it's a credit card they're paying 3% per transaction which is why there's so many businesses in Trinidad

[00:23:57] and like yo we do not want your credit card.

[00:24:00] Okay one last question on this paper I'll see before you move on does having the visa debit card from the GMM be your DPSC credit union or what have you would that allow me to withdraw the funds at any time or do I still need to wait to 30 days?

[00:24:15] That depends on PayPal. So PayPal will determine whether you want get to withdraw the funds anytime you want like I could just go into PayPal click withdraw and the money would be withdrawn to my bag with no fees.

[00:24:30] Oh there's fees there's fees they charge $5 but if you wait for the automatic transfer then it's free.

[00:24:37] The automatic transfer is free right so if you do it's your manual transfer then it's $5 US per withdrawal the second option and again these are based on PayPal they determine this.

[00:24:48] PayPal could also put you on a mandatory 30 day hold for your funds so you could only do the automatic withdrawal right and the third thing is PayPal could just look at your account and say we're not giving withdrawal access and then you're just that you're just screwed.

[00:25:04] Yeah they had they had me in that position for a little while. They had me yeah yeah because I'm because they do that because they do that I would again I anytime people ask about e-commerce for their business I would always explore every other option first before PayPal or even if we set up PayPal PayPal would always be supplementary to the other things that you use so that we are not relying on PayPal.

[00:25:33] I mean this one other tip being and this is the this only depends on access and if you can if you're eight if you are able to do this but if you're able to get a bank accounts in United States you know be a bank of America or whoever and you're able to get a visa debit card from there then I mean for me my my back for America card I would so many transfers me money on PayPal it's a mail account tomorrow.

[00:25:56] Your goal if you do that your goal I think the only thing I can see and this is why information the lack of information is what's killing everybody because we haven't had a account come out and talk to people about the taxes.

[00:26:13] What forms you have to fill it if you're going to go open up a US account what goes into that people don't open up US US bank accounts because people don't want to open don't want to pay Uncle Sam and it's not really don't want to pay.

[00:26:26] Right because I've heard I've heard an account and say you don't have to pay anything you have to declare.

[00:26:31] But that's different information from what I've heard from other people right so people accountants need to come out and kind of create that content and put the information out so that people know exactly what what is in what entails open up a US bank account and living outside of the US.

[00:26:48] Any mention on call Sam I need to move on to the next topic.

[00:26:55] So Karen you emphasize the importance of you have an you have a size the importance of digital tools for businesses today can you elaborate on somebody key tools or strategies that Caribbean entrepreneurs should prioritize to enhance their online presence and their competitiveness because of course we want to be able to.

[00:27:18] The crease all global competitiveness you want to be able to export you want to be able to attract that US currency without dealing with Uncle Sam too hard to harsh yeah yeah I think the two biggest things and these are the two biggest gaps and until we until businesses understand these two gaps.

[00:27:35] You can't really do anything else you need to understand the payment tools because.

[00:27:40] It doesn't make sense you spending all this money marketing your business and when somebody from outside of turn that into big old the size they want to do business with you you can get paid.

[00:27:52] And that happens all the time perfect example is somebody will go and they will Google what's the easiest way to set up a website what's the best website to sell products and they'll see things like Shopify they'll see things like wigs the c square space and.

[00:28:08] I you know contrary to popular belief I don't care about what platform you use right I only ever talk about WordPress because WordPress has been the easiest platform for Caribbean people to get paid from.

[00:28:24] It's not I never said it's easy just to use or the easiest to learn there are easier platforms to learn easier platforms to set up but when you go and this happens all the time the Google.

[00:28:38] Okay easiest platform wigs alright cool we're going to go set up wigs we're going to go pay the subscription and e-commerce subscription for wigs starts at 30 us a month so your jump or just 30 us a month you might even go on you might even go find a wigs developer and have and pay them paid I'm going to 1000 us a 500 US you know.

[00:29:00] Have them build up your wigs website for you so you're in the whole already before you even start they build on everything for you and then by the time it's done and you launch and you announce to the world hey everybody you can buy online and then they come.

[00:29:16] And the money isn't coming into anything because you haven't thought about getting paid so and then they come and I'll get the message saying hey I spent you know three months developing a wigs website how do I get paid I can't get paid and I'm like you're on the wrong platform what do you mean I'm on the wrong platform.

[00:29:36] And I tell them all of the things they need to do to get paid on wigs and like what I can't afford that well you need to get on a different platform so payment tools is the first thing that every single entrepreneur in the Caribbean needs to understand because how you get paid dictates what platforms and what tools you can and you cannot use right.

[00:30:00] The second thing would be understanding how digital marketing works I did not learn digital marketing to teach it that was furthest thing from my mind I learned digital marketing for my business so that I can get clientele outside of just trying that on to be go right.

[00:30:19] So when you figure out your payment option so you know how if if you do get a client you know how you're going to get paid then it's learning digital marketing so that you understand how you can now build your digital presence and you can start to attract clients from anywhere in the world.

[00:30:38] And again your business information is out there your products are out there so somebody should be able to jump somebody in Australia should be able to jump online and say what is the tastiest Caribbean snacks and you make fudge so your fudge shows up on page number one hope for each of the top five but maybe it shows up on page number one.

[00:31:00] And that person to click on the link learn what on earth is fudge and then you have a video or write up for something breaking down what fudges and that person should be able to say I want to try what this fudge is add to cart let me get my coconut fudge let me get my milk fudge my cocoa fudge add to cart pay you so now you have money and then you can now ship your product without person in Australia rather than your hustling at every single

[00:31:30] fair or every pop up shop that you can hustling fudge that anybody locally can buy any and everywhere.

[00:31:38] And that's why I mean at times like this I want to pick up Katie and Preston and I'm kind of shopper for at scale enabling enabling people from the diaspora to purchase Caribbean products like fudge and curma and whatever what and what have you.

[00:31:54] And that is so huge we pick up to Katie and get Katie on digital world last week Friday.

[00:32:00] Oh yeah yeah in person he was here in person yeah anyway I was I'm not interested right now no problem.

[00:32:09] Well you exactly you you you you know you're pizza so you good.

[00:32:14] But yeah what car shopper is doing and I told Katie in this I told Katie it's all the time I'm like bro if nobody ever tells you how important you are

[00:32:22] to the value chain if nobody tells you I'm telling you because what you are doing you are taking away two of the biggest problems that people have.

[00:32:30] One building a platform so that they can sell and then two payments well yourself in three big issues the third being logistics not everybody understands how to build a platform to market a platform payments

[00:32:43] and then add logistics on top of that and car shopper is doing that all in one.

[00:32:48] Um so you have a podcast you have a podcast and big big up to you you have a podcast called the entrepreneur FM.

[00:32:57] I sometimes wonder how does man releases so many episodes on a regular basis work I don't understand but you know big up to you again that book

[00:33:06] but the podcast focuses on digital strategy online business and of course entrepreneurship.

[00:33:12] In conducting this podcast what are some of the noteworthy trends or success stories in the Caribbean digital space that you feature on your podcast and I think I have an idea of at least one where I'm going to go.

[00:33:25] Um success stories of podcasts I would actually go on to say and I'm interested to see what you say but I would more say I feature all the success stories or the majority of the success stories on digital world.

[00:33:38] And the radio show on the radio show and I purposely do that because what I had the opportunity to have my own radio show I needed to figure out what was going to be the different shading factor between the podcast

[00:33:52] and what I would do on radio and one of the big things was I would do the majority I would do almost all of my features on the radio.

[00:34:00] What I started to do what I started to do right and I mean we are content factories. We're always thinking about how to create content also how to make it easier.

[00:34:09] What I would do is after a radio show I would talk to the guests and be like maybe they said something that um I really liked and I'm like hey I want to do something on the podcast send me I'll give them the topic or I have them pick the topic

[00:34:24] and I would have them send me the voice notes and I would compile it together and then that would be a podcast episode but the features to kind of feature people have really been on digital on the digital world radio show.

[00:34:36] And I think the biggest thing with the digital world radio show is my mindset towards the guess is always how are people doing something differently?

[00:34:46] How are they leveraging the digital tools and platforms available or is this a company that is creating something with individual space when everything kind of ties back into digital.

[00:34:56] So even if somebody is a traditional job like I've had a chiropractor, I've had psychiatrist therapists.

[00:35:04] I've had a crew in the chiropractor cracking back so I'll across the region.

[00:35:09] Make up the crew.

[00:35:10] Not the back, he has your back.

[00:35:12] You know?

[00:35:13] So even when it's been a traditional feel, everybody that I've been able to feature has leveraged has leveraged digital tools to build their to build their practice.

[00:35:26] So if you want me to say who I think has really been the most successful, honestly, I would and you just brought him up.

[00:35:34] Kern Roberts, I honestly think Kern is an animal.

[00:35:40] He is a beast.

[00:35:43] Kern gets it from the day I how I met Kern was because of TikTok.

[00:35:50] I met him because of TikTok.

[00:35:52] I had seen his TikTok videos.

[00:35:53] I'm like, you know, this guy is one of the things that Dr. Tobio and Cyprieli and Cyprieli all the other chiropractors that watch on YouTube.

[00:36:01] He's doing a lot of the similar things and I see them on YouTube.

[00:36:04] And then when we connected during our assessment, he's like, yeah, how did you hear about me?

[00:36:08] I'm like, I laughed.

[00:36:09] I'm like, TikTok.

[00:36:09] He's like, what did you laugh?

[00:36:10] I'm like, because it's just amazing that the time that we are in that we are now finding service providers on a platform like TikTok.

[00:36:19] And what he's been able to do with leveraging TikTok, leveraging Instagram, building his brand.

[00:36:26] He understands it as good as he is with his hands.

[00:36:30] He understands he has to educate and he has to create content.

[00:36:36] And because he is educating, because he's building creating content,

[00:36:39] because he has a personality that lends the social media as well,

[00:36:44] all of those things have come together.

[00:36:47] And he is now the most oversubscribed frigging chiropractor in the region.

[00:36:56] Kern is booked.

[00:36:58] I'll say this then jump in.

[00:37:00] Kern is booked a year in advance.

[00:37:02] Like, I'm like, bro, a year.

[00:37:04] I'm like, bro, my back hurts now.

[00:37:06] I will pull double.

[00:37:08] And he laughed.

[00:37:09] He's like, bro, he's like, I don't mean to laugh.

[00:37:12] He's like, but you understand how many people are like they will pay double

[00:37:16] and triple to get service now because they can't wait a year to come and see him.

[00:37:23] You know, I genuinely about this.

[00:37:24] You know, you have to check him next day.

[00:37:25] What's that?

[00:37:26] No, no, no.

[00:37:27] Well, I'll tell you what just because a lot of people have that objection or that hesitation

[00:37:32] that, hey, I don't, I'm shy.

[00:37:34] I'm introverted.

[00:37:35] I'm scared of putting myself on a social media.

[00:37:38] Now, Kern, Kern might have schooled me in university.

[00:37:41] Right?

[00:37:42] So you're in.

[00:37:42] No, I don't.

[00:37:43] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right?

[00:37:45] So I will tell you.

[00:37:46] So Kern was not like the most outgoing kind of guy.

[00:37:50] I mean, it's a cool guy, of course.

[00:37:51] But he's not, he's not the big extra voter whatever it is.

[00:37:56] So I was so thrilled and pleasantly surprised to see his social media presence

[00:38:01] on what he's doing there.

[00:38:03] You know, so I think,

[00:38:05] so I think, I mean, I think what's you have value to provide?

[00:38:08] I don't think you should either from anybody.

[00:38:11] Yeah, and it takes, it takes practice too because even as a marketing consultant,

[00:38:18] people will be like, you know, but I, but it's video and I'm shy and I'm this and I'm like,

[00:38:23] you listen, what are you comfortable doing?

[00:38:26] Right?

[00:38:27] Because a lot of people are saying shy.

[00:38:28] They really say, I'm just too shy for the video camera.

[00:38:31] And when I started, you know, I started off with video.

[00:38:34] It was blogging.

[00:38:35] I was writing.

[00:38:36] And so my advice to anybody is it's okay to be shy.

[00:38:40] Like, you don't have to do video.

[00:38:42] That's the biggest misconception.

[00:38:44] No, Jeremy.

[00:38:45] Don't have to do video jarad.

[00:38:47] I want to throw something at jarad every single time.

[00:38:50] We only worry all the time.

[00:38:52] What I tell them all the time, bro, it doesn't have to be video.

[00:38:56] Give him up every single time.

[00:38:57] Video only matters for social media because social media prioritizes video.

[00:39:03] But that's just social media.

[00:39:05] We are forgetting that there are podcasters.

[00:39:08] The biggest content created in the world is a podcaster.

[00:39:11] It's joe Rogan.

[00:39:13] It's joe Rogan.

[00:39:14] So you could podcast and be big.

[00:39:17] You can, again, blogging will never die because all of the search engines,

[00:39:22] your favorite AI tool chat GPT everybody pulls their information from the internet.

[00:39:28] So if you want to show up on Google, you want to show up in chat GPT,

[00:39:32] you better be creating your written articles on your website because that's where

[00:39:37] Google is getting the information from.

[00:39:39] That's where chat GPT is getting its information from.

[00:39:42] All right.

[00:39:42] So Karen and your experience, right?

[00:39:43] What challenges?

[00:39:45] I know we touched on this a little bit already.

[00:39:48] So you can let me know.

[00:39:49] Hey, Kevin, you asked me this already.

[00:39:50] But what challenges do entrepreneurs in the Caribbean typically face

[00:39:55] when it comes to adopting digital payment solutions?

[00:39:58] Right? So we speak about getting, getting out, using the tools to get ourselves out there.

[00:40:01] What not?

[00:40:02] You know, we speak about what the coins of this world.

[00:40:04] We can also talk about people like Catherine Nuss from Immortal, Immortal Beauty,

[00:40:10] who has an excellent e-commerce adopted website platform.

[00:40:13] But what challenges do they face when adopting the digital payment solutions?

[00:40:17] And how can they overcome these challenges?

[00:40:19] And then we could get into some of the tools available to us.

[00:40:22] I think the biggest challenge, the biggest challenges culture.

[00:40:27] Culturally, say that again.

[00:40:30] Culturally people do not trust the banking institutions.

[00:40:35] That's the biggest hurdle.

[00:40:36] That's the biggest.

[00:40:37] You can't, Kevin, we don't have a technology problem.

[00:40:40] We do not have a technology problem.

[00:40:42] We have not had a technology problem in the Caribbean.

[00:40:45] FAC is 20 years old.

[00:40:47] Technically, FAC being full of certain land-to-commerce,

[00:40:50] out of Bermuda, Christmas.

[00:40:52] We're trying to come.

[00:40:53] Yet, FAC is 20 plus years old.

[00:40:55] Technically, we haven't been able to do e-commerce in the Caribbean for over 20 years, right?

[00:40:59] However, culturally, we do not like and trust the institution.

[00:41:07] So when you're dealing with somebody who they have a business, whatever the business is

[00:41:13] and they're coming to saying, hey, they want to grow the business.

[00:41:17] And then their caveat is I want to grow the business.

[00:41:20] But Anna, into any solution that has to do with the bank, give me cash.

[00:41:26] I don't trust the banks.

[00:41:28] Firepoint Babylon.

[00:41:30] When that is the caveat that they have,

[00:41:36] you're dead in the water.

[00:41:37] There is nothing you can do to really change that...

[00:41:43] I don't want to say nothing you can do,

[00:41:44] but it's very hard to change that entire cultural mindset as to how much

[00:41:50] people have a disdain and distrust of the banking system.

[00:41:55] Let me throw you this.

[00:41:59] December 2020, right?

[00:42:01] That was just the other day.

[00:42:03] December 2020, the Prime Minister of Trinidad and Tobago, Dr. Keith Rowling,

[00:42:09] he is in an interview.

[00:42:11] And I'll send you the link for this article afterwards.

[00:42:14] He is an interview and he goes on to say...

[00:42:17] And quote, he goes on to say that he was the last person in government

[00:42:22] to switch from check to direct deposits.

[00:42:26] And the reason he was the last person in government to move from check,

[00:42:31] he's like, I prefer cash because I don't trust the system.

[00:42:36] Wow.

[00:42:39] So now that's so loaded.

[00:42:43] Because for one, if your Prime Minister, if the main...

[00:42:47] If the number one citizen in your country comes out and says they don't trust the system,

[00:42:52] they don't trust the banking system.

[00:42:54] They prefer cash.

[00:42:56] Then you already know how much energy he's going to put into digitizing anything.

[00:43:02] No, to be fair.

[00:43:03] To be fair, now I would say any minister of finance is doing...

[00:43:07] I mean, at least it looks like they're doing a lot to promote...

[00:43:11] Carousel, that's bad.

[00:43:15] But it looks like they're doing a lot to promote...

[00:43:18] Like cash, as economy, not I see the...

[00:43:20] Trying to become an international financial center.

[00:43:23] He's a CSC, they'll be getting a lot of moves in his space,

[00:43:26] having events.

[00:43:27] They recently launched the one FinTech Avenue.

[00:43:30] I think I'm going to have John or Prairie Johnny podcast soon.

[00:43:34] Yeah, he should for sure.

[00:43:35] Yeah, yeah, to talk about that.

[00:43:37] You know, so I say it moves...

[00:43:40] Being made from not perspective.

[00:43:41] But I mean, please continue on what's on our reprimand.

[00:43:46] So I'll jump into what you said right after, right?

[00:43:48] But yeah, so from just seeing that, from seeing that,

[00:43:52] that kind of just tells you where his mindset is when it comes to the financial system.

[00:43:56] I don't think he also took in a consideration that,

[00:43:58] yo, you are the prime minister, your end government.

[00:44:01] What was the last thing you probably waited in line to cash your check?

[00:44:05] What was the last time you...

[00:44:07] Because he said he would go in and cash his check and take out his cash.

[00:44:11] What was the last time even waited in line to go in, to go in to take that money out?

[00:44:16] Right?

[00:44:16] The average person not going through that, right?

[00:44:21] To wait some of the more, I'm lying, some of the more.

[00:44:24] Right?

[00:44:24] Actually a lot of the more.

[00:44:25] A lot of the more.

[00:44:26] It depends on what you need to do.

[00:44:28] It depends what...

[00:44:28] I was in the bank, right?

[00:44:29] Just before I flew up here.

[00:44:31] Yeah.

[00:44:33] A lot of people, a lot of people like us.

[00:44:36] We are because we don't have the ability to conduct certain transactions online.

[00:44:42] Otherwise the bank would never see us.

[00:44:44] Right?

[00:44:45] But some people just don't trust the banking system.

[00:44:48] So they want to go into the bank and deal with a human

[00:44:51] right for every single transaction.

[00:44:54] Right?

[00:44:54] That's culturally it's very hard.

[00:44:58] I think that's the biggest hurdle.

[00:44:59] But I think that's the, that's sorry it's a cut to you.

[00:45:01] That I think that's the generate, that's like the older generations and extent, right?

[00:45:05] No, it is our generation and younger too.

[00:45:09] Because it's being passed down.

[00:45:11] It's being passed down to the point where people are throwing their insecurities to

[00:45:18] the children and their children and children.

[00:45:21] We're still seeing a lot of people who are in their 20s who are like online banking now.

[00:45:27] I pay my bills.

[00:45:29] I pay, well, I just have a friend the other day that was like, hey, we're on the phone.

[00:45:35] We're talking and you're like, yo, like, yo, let me cry about just now.

[00:45:38] I got to go into TNT to pay my bill.

[00:45:41] And I'm like, is it not your electricity is cut?

[00:45:47] You need somebody to turn it on like now for now?

[00:45:52] And they're like, well, no, I'm like, is it that your bill is due tomorrow?

[00:45:56] And you have to be because I couldn't wrap my mind on why are you going in?

[00:46:01] And they're just like, no, I just prefer to go in and pay my bills in TNT.

[00:46:06] And I'm like, listen, my head just, I'm like, you're not a real person.

[00:46:12] So we have a lot of that.

[00:46:14] We have a lot of that going back to to one FinTech Avenue, right?

[00:46:19] My problem with that and I have to meet with John myself and do a show with him.

[00:46:24] My problem with one FinTech, and I think this is where a couple of people's mindsets are,

[00:46:30] is if you put that in the most inaccessible to the public place, as could possibly be.

[00:46:40] The average person, like, if the goal is to teach the average person of FinTech,

[00:46:44] the average person not going into parliament, into waterfront,

[00:46:49] to come up to that heavily guarded building, to come and learn about FinTech.

[00:46:54] If you wanted to educate the public about FinTech, one FinTech Avenue should have been a big store

[00:47:02] in Trinity Mall. It should have been a store in West Mall. It should have been a store in East

[00:47:11] Gate. It has to be where the public is frequently trafficking and you can now showcase

[00:47:21] where or how these things work. But again, I think a lot of it is lip service because even look at

[00:47:26] um, I'll give you another good example. TIC, we here for TIC?

[00:47:31] Now I wasn't in the country but in 2010.

[00:47:34] Okay. So two weeks prior to TIC was the first ever Caribbean Food and Beverage Conference, right?

[00:47:41] And I go, we're there with Guardian Media so I'm there. My digital world show is live on site

[00:47:47] at Caribbean Food and Beverage. So I'm speaking to all of the organizers and then the organizers know

[00:47:52] me sort of coming at me and asking me my opinion, you know, what do I like, what do I not like,

[00:47:56] what I improve? And I'm like, what would I improve? I'm like, Caribbean Food and Beverage Conference,

[00:48:01] everybody here is selling products, right? I'm like, have you gentlemen bought anything as yet?

[00:48:06] They're like, no, they haven't bought anything as yet. They've been busy. So I'm like, let's go

[00:48:10] and buy something shall we? And they're like, okay, this is random but okay.

[00:48:16] I just go to the next booth, right? I'm like, hey, you are selling ice cream. How can I pay for

[00:48:24] this ice cream? They're like, oh, right now only cash. I'm like, ooh, so everybody looked on

[00:48:28] the camera. I'm like, gosh, he's like, oh my god. My chest. I'm like, gosh, you know what,

[00:48:38] but the organizers looked at me like, they're like, wait a minute, you don't man pull out this card.

[00:48:43] They're like, no, no cards like, no, not right. I'm like, all right, good. We go to two more booths.

[00:48:48] How can we buy your products? They're like, oh, cash only. So we walk back where we were

[00:48:54] guarding the organization. And I'm like, oh, were you guys able to purchase anything? I'm

[00:48:59] like, what, you don't understand nobody came in here with no machine to take payments and

[00:49:04] again, why is anybody only going to catch? I'm like, I thought she would never ask. Why as you

[00:49:09] as the organizers, why have you not ensured that your banking partners are here setting up

[00:49:17] either terminals? Why is it we pay not in here with a QR code or you guys, why isn't one of

[00:49:25] the sponsors Republic Bank with M cash and give everybody a digital wallet. And you're teaching

[00:49:31] everybody that walks in the door about how the digital wallet works from the gate. So they came back

[00:49:39] they came back and I'm like, you know, we never we never even thought about that. I'm like, I'm like,

[00:49:42] well, I'm like, well, you never, I know you never thought about it because it's we're here trying to

[00:49:46] pay with cash. And none of us have had. So they came back with TIC, one of the organizers was

[00:49:52] like, yo, we took everything you said and sent me the flyer. And the flyer was Republic Bank is not

[00:50:01] one of the sponsors for TIC, right? And cash specifically on the day of end cash. And this is

[00:50:08] why I say we have problems and not it's not technology. We don't have we have people problems.

[00:50:14] So on the day of TIC, when I see the same organizer that sent me the flyer that said we brought

[00:50:21] end cash in because of you. He comes to me and he started as I see him, he starts shaking his head.

[00:50:27] So I'm like, I'm like, what's going on? It was good. He's like, boy, he's like, you would not believe.

[00:50:32] You would not believe what we're dealing with right now. We tried to get end cash into TIC, right?

[00:50:40] And cash for public banks said it was two last minutes to set up a booth. So they said the organizer

[00:50:47] said, hey, we have one of the biggest booths here. We will give you half of our booth because we need

[00:50:55] you here and we need to push the digital payment solution. And this is like you're such a core thing

[00:51:03] because people are selling goods and products at the event like we need you here. If we don't have

[00:51:09] what you guys are offering, then the money is not going to be as the money generated is not

[00:51:15] going to be as big as if it was with a digital payment solution here. The public bank goes

[00:51:23] and I don't want to quote down. I'm not quoting but just paraphrasing but they're basically just like

[00:51:28] well, no, it's too last minute for any sort of booth. So we will just organize and they sent

[00:51:36] two reps to TIC. There were hundreds. There were over I think 600 booths. There were thousands

[00:51:47] of thousands of guests that were there. It was rammed. All three days was rammed from morning

[00:51:55] to night. You sent two lonely reps in a black t-shirt to walk around breading the gospel of Entash.

[00:52:07] Anybody and the organizers repist because again, the same problem people are selling goods and

[00:52:15] services and products and when it comes to payments you're only taking cash. And that was a decision

[00:52:20] that the republic bank saw it best. Not even like I could understand what they said you know what,

[00:52:26] we don't have a we don't have the time to set up a booth even if it's a half a booth but we're going

[00:52:31] to come 15 deep. The whole republic bank were coming inside of TIC. You sent two people so no,

[00:52:39] we don't not again these are hurdles. These are hurdles. It's not technology. It's people problems

[00:52:45] that we have in the career. So we have the technology. We have these systems. You just need people with

[00:52:49] discipline and the foresight and planning to implement this system. And unfortunately Kevin,

[00:52:55] we don't have that in abundance. We don't. We we don't have that in abundance and we haven't had

[00:53:02] a technology problem you know I want to go as far as to say since we came on the scene you could

[00:53:08] never tell me it's a technology problem. We don't have a technology problem. We have a people problem.

[00:53:12] We have a culture problem and a people problem. And that is is is is a bigger problem that not that

[00:53:18] me alone can't solve that all the alone can solve that you alone can solve it's going to take on

[00:53:25] all hands on deck from the prime minister down and everybody all hands on deck to solve this problem.

[00:53:32] Definitely, it's definitely an ecosystem problem to solve you know. And we were so we were talking

[00:53:39] pre pre show. I was telling you that my latest project. I'm actually so I'm I'm dedicated a

[00:53:46] significant part of my career to attracting investment from global investors to the Caribbean

[00:53:53] region. And in my through my research through my practice, I found that one of the major things

[00:54:01] that gives investors pause when it comes to investing in a company is lack of information.

[00:54:08] Right. In doing valuations for companies in Toronto and United States or whatnot,

[00:54:16] it's very easy to find information on particle industries is very easy to present that information

[00:54:21] is very easy to get information structure as market size expected growth and all those other things

[00:54:27] that are that enable investors, financiers, bankers, consultants, business operators to make

[00:54:34] informed decisions. No, when we look at the Caribbean region, however, it's a big lack. There's

[00:54:42] a big lack of that information available and us as you know as as patriots of the Caribbean,

[00:54:50] we want to see the Caribbean do well. We want to see the business ecosystem do well. We want to

[00:54:54] be one company is to be able to grow to scale to create jobs. So you know, so one day have our

[00:55:01] region B a first world region, you know, despite the low population numbers because it's a

[00:55:07] why I love the beautiful man we love to be there. We love to be there. We love to be there. We

[00:55:10] love to be there. I mean it's not always the best place to do business but you know it's a good

[00:55:16] place to be. So that said, I'm putting together research information for ideally targeted for

[00:55:27] investors and bankers on different regions from the Caribbean. And I think the first region I want

[00:55:34] to tackle is actually digital payment space because I see it's a growing region and I see it

[00:55:40] closely interwoven with the ease of doing business. So we spoke about the bank and sister

[00:55:46] man in previous episodes. We spoke with your boy OC about the body. He's a trouble man.

[00:55:53] OC is a trouble man. Anyway, so I spoke to OC about ease of doing business and

[00:56:00] any back three banking system in Canada and to be going on in other countries throughout the

[00:56:05] region. You know, so put them together put them together research and I'm announcing it. I'm

[00:56:10] announcing it here. So that's it. The public podcast world, who will mail contour, will

[00:56:15] Karen who will mail contour, both looking to publish that before the end of 2023. Actually,

[00:56:20] looking at November we have a team looking on it. The reports I would say 68% to 70% done.

[00:56:27] You know, just need to put some need to put some some touches on it. All that said, Karen,

[00:56:34] I wanted to talk to you about the landscape of the digital payment sector in China and

[00:56:40] to be going particular and I think we have four major players, each of them you've mentioned

[00:56:46] previously in this conversation. I want to start with the oldest player. So first Atlantic

[00:56:52] Commerce because they've essentially attached themselves to the banking system to enable them

[00:56:58] to enable digital payments. If you get us walk us through your understanding of how that works.

[00:57:05] Yeah, so with first Atlantic Commerce, right? You essentially have to have a merchant bank account

[00:57:13] because they're not a public facing entity. You have to go through the banks. So the first step

[00:57:20] to work with first Atlantic Commerce is you got to go to your bank and your respective country. The

[00:57:25] good thing is that first Atlantic Commerce works almost every single bank in the entire Caribbean.

[00:57:30] So every Caribbean region has the ability to do to do e-commerce. So you go to your bank,

[00:57:36] you open up a merchant account. Then once you open the merchant account, you can go to first

[00:57:42] Atlantic Commerce and they have over 15 platforms. Matter of fact, they just emailed me today.

[00:57:48] I think they're adding a new platform as well but they have over 15 platforms that you can use

[00:57:54] their shopping cart. So if you want to use Wix, if you want to use Shopify, Jumla, Drupal,

[00:58:01] a whole suite, right? Magento. All those platforms you're able to do e-commerce utilizing

[00:58:07] first Atlantic Commerce. So you would first go open up a merchant account with your bank.

[00:58:12] Then you go to first Atlantic Commerce, open up an account with them. They are going to be your

[00:58:17] payment processor and the money would go into your bank account. Depending on the platform

[00:58:21] you would use. So in the case of like a Wix or Shopify, you would need so whilst first Atlantic

[00:58:28] Commerce is in the cloud, you would then need an additional partner that connects first Atlantic

[00:58:32] Commerce to the platform that you are using. So for Wix and Shopify, Tillopay is a technology

[00:58:40] partner with First Atlantic Commerce that connects FAC to the Shopify or the Wix platform.

[00:58:48] And now that will allow you to now process payments on that Wix platform or Shopify,

[00:58:55] First Atlantic Commerce process of the payment. The money goes directly into your merchant account

[00:58:59] with your bank. So that's pretty much how the flow starts. So you need to have a merchant

[00:59:04] account and then you would go to first Atlantic Commerce. All right. So you need a Mischus account.

[00:59:09] There's over 15 platforms. You need a partner to collect the platform to FAC. That platform,

[00:59:15] that partner, sorry. Will it be Tilloo you said or somebody else?

[00:59:20] Yeah. So they have multiple partners. It just depends. It depends on what platform you are

[00:59:24] looking to use. So I'm trying to see if I can pull up. But yeah, they have multiple platforms

[00:59:29] that you could use and again, they have there in the shopping carts. So they have again,

[00:59:34] you could use First Atlantic Commerce with Magento WordPress, WooCommerce, Shopify,

[00:59:40] PrestoShop, OpenCart, Nidocs, Jumla, Wix and Fogaro. And a whole bunch of other reservation systems,

[00:59:48] ticketing platforms, online ordering systems, advertising solutions. So they have a wide variety

[00:59:54] of platforms that First Atlantic Commerce can integrate with. Yeah. So I know you're a big fan

[00:59:59] of Fogaro. I know you for that integration. Okay. Cool. Cool. Cool. All right. So that's for

[01:00:06] the Atlantic Commerce. And that's how that integrates with the banking system. And that's how you use it

[01:00:11] to enable payments on your website. So there are a couple of steps there as you need to know,

[01:00:15] and it's not as easy as boom, boom, boom, boom. You know, there's a little bit of

[01:00:20] and there's money involved. So there's money involved, right? So the merchant accounts, the merchant

[01:00:27] accounts are not free, right? So here in Trinidad alone, the merchant accounts start from 75 US and

[01:00:34] they go up to 300 US, depending on which bank you are using that fee is per month.

[01:00:44] Okay. That's for you per month, right? So when you're using First Atlantic Commerce again,

[01:00:51] you're probably an established business and you're probably using tools that some of the other

[01:00:57] tools or platforms don't integrate with. But you got to pay that per month. And then the bank also

[01:01:03] charges you. They give you a transaction rate. So it could be anywhere from 3 to 5% per transaction

[01:01:11] the bank is charging you, right? Per transaction. I'm going to need to talk to Chris. I'm going

[01:01:18] to talk to Chris. I, well, 3 to 5%. Put me that bank. That's the bank. And then you have 25 cents per

[01:01:29] transaction. I believe that fee is the FAC fee per transaction. Oh, so the banks make the 3 to 5%

[01:01:35] and FAC takes you 25 cents. 25 cents? Yeah. So that's 3 to 5% you would negotiate with your bank,

[01:01:43] right? Depending on your volume and whatever else you got to negotiate that. And then let's just

[01:01:49] say you're in the case of, right? He's starting to wipe your eyes. No, wipe your eyes yet. We've

[01:01:53] not even done. If you're using a platform, so let's use the example of Shopify. Shopify is

[01:02:00] one of the biggest e-commerce platforms in the world. If you want to use FAC with Shopify because

[01:02:06] you can't use anything else, you then have to now get Tilo Pay to connect your FAC accounts

[01:02:13] to Shopify until P takes 1% per transaction. So, oh, wow. Okay. Wow. Okay. Right. And then

[01:02:26] that still doesn't include your monthly subscription fee to the platform that you are using.

[01:02:34] So Shopify starts at 30 US per month for e-commerce. Oh, that's sharp. Okay. So,

[01:02:45] so then people want to talk about why I keep telling people gold press?

[01:02:51] All right. So okay. So by the time it starts at the lowest you pay in 75 US per month.

[01:02:57] Okay. Then you integrate some like Tilo Pay that's 1%. All right.

[01:03:00] 5% no problem. Then you go to the talk to your bank and say,

[01:03:04] we'll bank please. Please. A bank. A bank. And in Banzino, 3 to 5%. All right. Jam.

[01:03:11] Then FAC says 25 cents. All right. Holy 25 cents per transaction. Oh, sorry. The 3 to 5%

[01:03:16] is per transaction that 1% is per transaction. So you look at now it's somewhere between 4%

[01:03:22] percent per transaction plus 25 cents. 25 cents is like an insult to injury. But then

[01:03:29] in US. In US. All right. So that's $1.50. TNT and that's a lot of money in Jamaican dollars.

[01:03:35] All right. So shop Shopify. So then Shopify says, we want to do the USD per month as well.

[01:03:43] All right. So yeah, you definitely have to be an established business. Ricking and

[01:03:47] release something like I don't know 10, 20 KUS per month at the lowest at the low end for this

[01:03:53] to make sense for you. For this to be available option for you. All right. That's fine. Okay.

[01:03:57] So if I'm to go in terms of timeline. All right. So we're going to cover we pay. We're going to

[01:04:03] cover and cash on pay wise or pay wise and then cash depend on the timeline. All right. So first

[01:04:08] analytic is the oldest one. And then we have we pay. So talk to me about we pay. I mean, a lot

[01:04:12] of things keep happening about we pay. We pay is a moving growing business. They move from

[01:04:18] Shenna to Jamaica. You know, then Jamaica to Miami. They started at the NEO bank and everything.

[01:04:25] I mean, lovely story. Love the guy. So yeah, let's talk about let's talk about we pay as an

[01:04:31] option for business owners in your region. So a lot of what a lot of what we are seeing with

[01:04:39] we pay there's a lot of announcements. They're stacking up a lot of partnerships and assets. And I think

[01:04:47] whilst we can't like whilst there's been a lot of announcements is the majority of the

[01:04:50] announcements we can't actually do just yet. However, I think there's going to be a time. I don't

[01:04:57] know what I don't know when the timeline is but it's going to be a time where a switch gets flipped

[01:05:03] and the we pay ecosystem is going to be like the biggest ecosystem in the entire region. But as for

[01:05:09] what you can do right now with your eyes closed, it's let's just say you want to you start a website

[01:05:16] you want to do e-commerce. The reason why so this is the reason why I would always recommend WordPress

[01:05:23] for everybody right? You can start a WordPress website for as little as three USD per month that

[01:05:31] you're monthly fee for hosting your domain fee your domain fees a yearly fee but we know domains are

[01:05:38] cheap. That could be as low as as low as two dollars for the year right then if you're using we pay

[01:05:45] to process your payments we pay has is we pay is there's no monthly fee for we pay and you would

[01:05:53] have the 3.5% per transaction fee plus three dollars Tt or whatever your currency exchange is depending

[01:06:02] on the country that you were in all right? And that is it. All right, go look at that. Okay, go look

[01:06:09] at that because I think when you started to talk about Visa and Mastercard and those guys,

[01:06:15] pretty much anything you want to spend something like two to three percent they pay something

[01:06:19] put a transaction. Yeah, yeah, yeah, correct. When you're in a payment gateway is essentially

[01:06:26] just your digital point of sale terminal because again when you are in a store the business pays

[01:06:33] 3% to the bank per transaction 3 to 5% depending on whatever they've worked out with the bank,

[01:06:39] right? So it's the exact same thing but just online. So there's no escaping and that's why a lot of

[01:06:44] people, a lot of businesses in Trinidad will tell you no we don't accept credit card because they

[01:06:48] don't want to lose out they three to five percent per transaction on your candy bar.

[01:06:56] So here's where here's where really you know here's where I enculted that to right so most businesses

[01:07:01] will just eat that three to four percent three percent whatever because yeah they want

[01:07:06] the business they want to say they know their profit margin they've profit margin is way more

[01:07:10] than that three percent right so they find where that they've catered for exactly, exactly.

[01:07:17] But when I went when I go to the liquor mart in St James I wouldn't name them but

[01:07:22] when I go to liquor mart in St James and I say what I wanted is can't get this bottle of rum on

[01:07:26] a plate with my card you see now you're there if you're being a credit card it's an extra

[01:07:30] three four percent you know better. Sir no problem no problem no problem because they want to get

[01:07:36] they want to get away with that but here's the thing the bank the bank has forbidden that and the

[01:07:41] bank will strip you of your terminal if you are caught doing it okay well that was yes ago so I

[01:07:47] didn't I'm not no I'm not no snitch. Still popping in it still happening. No me no yes good

[01:07:52] out eventually liquor mart so I don't know maybe they maybe they switched up maybe they fixed

[01:07:56] things up and I'm not snitching on them. I could only hold I could only hold but you know it

[01:08:01] is still a big problem and turn on that you know so the other the other thing you could do with

[01:08:06] we pay is let's just say you don't have a website you're a service based business you're a

[01:08:09] consultant whatever right you can also send digital invoices to your clientele anywhere in the

[01:08:16] world so you don't have to have a website to use we pay you can send again this is free as well

[01:08:21] you just register set a creature business account we pay and then you can send a digital invoice

[01:08:26] that business with them paying you with their credit card and you have the option of getting that

[01:08:31] money in US currency or your local currency right if you want to keep it in US you just have to have

[01:08:38] a local US account with your bank wherever country you're in and then when the money comes in

[01:08:42] you have the ability to now send the money to your US account or convert it to your local

[01:08:47] currency and send the local currency to your bank account as well is that the we shop's offering

[01:08:54] you this is just a digital invoice when you go into what you log into we pay you'll see invoice

[01:09:00] like the second option on your back end okay I like the I like the no upfront payments and they

[01:09:05] risk and the only taking money on your back end and I think it makes it a lot easier you know

[01:09:10] is that is that we win when you win sort of mentality that I like and that's not a huge thing because

[01:09:16] again when we're talking more hurdles right imagine when I tell and again this again this happens

[01:09:22] every single day somebody comes to me and says hey I built on wicks I can't get paid how do I get

[01:09:27] paid on the wicks and I tell them everything I just told you and then but I can't afford that

[01:09:32] you shouldn't thought about that before you went and spent money on the wicks

[01:09:37] and now that money goes down the drain because a lot of these people cannot afford that so the

[01:09:43] money in time goes down the drain they might never rebound to go online or if they do they then

[01:09:52] have to spend more money to go and have somebody build out WordPress or some other platform that

[01:09:57] allows them to easily get paid got you got you got you got you okay for me once here as I know

[01:10:06] maybe just one clarification question is we shop is that is that auto's yet we shops

[01:10:11] oh it's out I don't know if it's still around okay no problem no problem sometimes you know these

[01:10:17] things happen all right I want to touch on color bank because I saw that you have the color bank

[01:10:22] card and I've seen all we're using color bank card let's talk about color of all color

[01:10:27] about yeah it's a lot of the card man flex it flex it flex it I see it yeah yeah but you have

[01:10:32] that number before I buy something but yeah so color bank I think this they would have announced

[01:10:43] this January 2022 and they would have launched it when was it September 2022

[01:10:51] I'm calling for memory I'm not I don't have the information for me right

[01:10:53] well this is definitely a question for Aldrin because this was this was like I mean we the

[01:11:04] the rebel card initially was announced in 2019 right then they had a whole lot of problems with

[01:11:09] central bank and yadda yadda now we have the color bank cards and I've seen them I've seen them

[01:11:17] in the thousands they are here they are real they have just not been released to public is yet

[01:11:24] I don't know why they're not really to public no oh I guess you you want to know do you know

[01:11:32] the guys I've seen with them okay I know you want the list you want the list yeah I got it to

[01:11:39] test they even have the color bank app and the digital credit card so I've seen them using the

[01:11:45] virtual color bank credit card using their phones to make payments I've seen all these things

[01:11:50] working I've been using the color bank card and it's working I've had a problem with it however

[01:11:56] I don't know what the issue is with respect to being released because they were going to release

[01:12:02] it this December last year and if we it wasn't released so at this point I don't know what to hold

[01:12:12] the pits so that is again that's a question that you know whenever we both see all of it we must ask

[01:12:18] if I love it I love it I love it I love it I love it all right that's cool and in school at

[01:12:24] they launched the color bank I think that's also available in Florida or so yeah I could be wrong

[01:12:33] um I'll leave that to Alden's PRT all right really really really I love all of them on the

[01:12:41] podcast again soon yeah I love it Mark on the podcast soon if we want we want to know we want to

[01:12:47] know because again we are seeing the vision and like I said there's a lot of things that that

[01:12:54] we pay has announced that we are seeing the assets being built we don't know when it's going

[01:13:01] to be released into the into the wild but again I personally think that I know a lot of people

[01:13:06] are frustrated they're seeing it and they can't use it or access a lot of things that have been

[01:13:11] announced I honestly think that while Alden looks like a madman sometimes we're going to see it

[01:13:19] pay off because our switch is going to be flipped and there's going to be the world of we pay

[01:13:26] an entire ecosystem that runs very very deep and is going to be something to see when everything

[01:13:33] gets turned on all right looking forward to that and looking forward to a future conversation with

[01:13:38] Owen Wien of we pay okay let's talk about pay wise now so pay wise pay wise is this a digital wallet

[01:13:50] is this a digital wallet or something so is this another payment facility to how would you

[01:13:54] define pay wise hold us and work where is the value because essentially on this point that's

[01:13:59] really always one and where is the value in these in these platforms in these services or what have you

[01:14:06] have you have you interviewed Ian Allen is yet I have not actually have it's on my cards too

[01:14:12] I listen to your interview with him nice story yeah yeah yeah yeah man yo people don't know

[01:14:19] because I couldn't see it but my mind was in like tearing up oh he was yeah I heard it's in

[01:14:26] his voice I I remind him to go buy some jerk chicken I was like whoa they did that to you and

[01:14:32] yeah those those kind of circumstances you know you talk about people's money right and people

[01:14:37] couldn't have access to the money and people it's a number the sad and personal stories and yeah man

[01:14:42] some of those things really caught deep especially if you're somebody who's trying to help people yeah

[01:14:49] they already come into pitch for extrem but you know what where does where does pay wise so I

[01:14:54] think I think the main thing to kind of I think that the things were addressed versus you know

[01:15:00] what was pay wise before so pay wise before was a payment facilitating tool that you what it was

[01:15:09] a partner with nlcb and i gt so they were using i gt the gaming terminals they were using i gt

[01:15:17] to create the network or platform where you could have your own account number and you could

[01:15:23] give that account number to anybody within trinon to bego they would then go into any any nlcb booth

[01:15:31] and nlcb booths were using the i gt terminals to do all their transactions right so you could go

[01:15:38] you could somebody could call you and say hey I want to buy a product they could you can give

[01:15:43] them your your pay wise number they go to any lot of booths they give them your number and they

[01:15:49] make the payment and within the next day the next 24 hours the money was in your account right

[01:15:56] that was one of the greatest things ever because when you think about how many lot of booster are

[01:16:01] in trinon that there's a lot of booths on every corner every corner is a lot of booths and because

[01:16:07] we're still such a cash dominant society that was the greatest thing because now anybody could

[01:16:15] pay you from anywhere in trinon that and they and everybody has cash right and the money the

[01:16:20] remittance time was 24 hours 24 hours of money was in your account so it was great so when that

[01:16:26] thing closed down that was huge pay wise was so successful to begin with because one you were

[01:16:34] using a currency or or form of payment that everybody trusts which was cash and two you are using

[01:16:42] the most found entity in the country a lot of booths and everybody has trust in a lot of booths right

[01:16:51] everybody has trust no people listen to me it was wild okay let me paint this picture

[01:16:58] people were buying phones from me and and putting the money in it with a lot of booth terminals

[01:17:03] so I would have people where they would order a phone and the phone was $15,000

[01:17:09] kept they were taking out 15k in cash and going to a lot of booth terminal with 15 grand cash

[01:17:20] right they wouldn't that people are people not even swiping their cards like there's more

[01:17:27] convincing that has to happen for people to use their credit cards or the new visa debit cards

[01:17:33] to pay 15k online to another what people had no problem taking out 15k and going to a lot of booth

[01:17:41] and spending that so that was why pay wise was ultra successful when it when it started then

[01:17:48] the whole thing happened with i GT co mingling funds they had to close down and then this new revamp

[01:17:55] of pay wise I think we're now starting to learn more about pay wise because everything with pay

[01:18:02] wise is is is new they're the first company that got the new e-money license we don't even know what

[01:18:08] that means because central bank hasn't come out to kind of really say what this means in a nutshell

[01:18:17] it allows them to collect and remit money but they're again this is new the e-money license is new

[01:18:25] look central bank has made another announcement this week about another license that they have

[01:18:30] granted to pay wise to cash to tstt and some other company but again nobody is coming out outside of

[01:18:39] a pdf released on facebook nobody is coming out from central bank or any entity to say what does

[01:18:51] this exactly mean so i'm seeing people putting congratulations oh congratulations pay wise

[01:18:59] but they don't even know what it means right they have no idea what they're saying can grab central

[01:19:05] bank is said hey you're one of four companies that has a new license but we don't know what it means

[01:19:12] because we're not even seeing the services in in circulation like that to understand how that works

[01:19:18] so from what i know pay wise so far pay wise has a payment plugin where you can use your pay wise

[01:19:25] account integrate into your WordPress website WordPress again integrate your work your plugin

[01:19:32] into your WordPress website and they can process the payments for you you can now send money from

[01:19:38] pay wise wallet to pay wise wallet if you have a pay wise account those are the two main things I

[01:19:44] know of pay wise so far but again i want to see more education surrounding what pay wise does

[01:19:51] how it works because i don't know but you i don't i don't know anybody that's using pay wise is

[01:19:56] yet right i a business a business hasn't said to me hey we take multiple forms of payment we take

[01:20:05] cash we take credit card you could buy online and you could now use pay wise i haven't had that yet

[01:20:12] in the first iteration of pay wise that was what every business was running you live in man

[01:20:18] vanilla and you're in sugaramas hey pay us to pay wise go here near us a lot of booths

[01:20:25] go on your nests and there we do it with them right so those are the two main things I know of pay

[01:20:30] wise so far but i myself want more information on what pay wise is doing and what these new licenses

[01:20:37] that central bank is offering people what does that mean for joe public right yeah and i think in

[01:20:44] terms of what does those like what do those licenses mean for joe public i mean yeah that would be

[01:20:48] something i want to dive deeper on with the folks at the tti fc i think they would have a good

[01:20:54] handle on that you know um simply absolutely because again we're seeing we're seeing like

[01:21:00] tst is being granted license we have no idea tst tst tst in payments

[01:21:06] we have no idea what's going on the company that everybody made a big stinkable pesh

[01:21:11] nobody knows who these people are what they're doing we don't know so there's just such a

[01:21:15] again it comes back to lack of information again where we just don't know and we're kind of

[01:21:21] just waiting to see what these developments are okay so if you have to talk value proposition right

[01:21:30] in terms of what pay wise is offering this is what we pay is offering how would you see the

[01:21:36] compare contrast any if you want to throw fc into that mix so value proposition with any payment

[01:21:45] uh fit facilitator is that you expand your network of clientele people can now buy from you and

[01:21:53] conduct business with you anywhere in the world that is the value proposition right then and there

[01:22:00] how you get to that destination to me doesn't really matter because it's kind of like cars

[01:22:06] you could buy a bans you could buy a corolla you could write a horse at the end of the day you're

[01:22:11] getting from point eight point B how you do it how fast you do it or how much it costs to do it

[01:22:17] horses are quite expensive how much it costs to do it is going to be up for determination but you

[01:22:25] would have to know you'd have to weigh the pros and the benefits so one of the biggest benefits of

[01:22:30] using fac is that fac turns around your money in your bank account within 20 40 48 hours right

[01:22:38] directly into your bank account you just have to get paid online and fac pushes that money

[01:22:44] to the bank account within 20 44 that's a huge huge value proposition because we know that cash

[01:22:50] flows the lifeblood of any business so the faster you get your money back in your hand the better for

[01:22:56] you we pay however we pay offers no fees up front you can get started now for now but the money

[01:23:06] goes into your we pay wallets and then the money takes three to seven business days or three to ten

[01:23:11] business days without money to go from your we pay wallet to your bank account some people say

[01:23:16] that's way too long to wait for your money that's kind of long but then what do you tell the people

[01:23:23] who are using PayPal waiting 30 days it's all them it needs to be a better way

[01:23:31] I need to be a better way right so I mean again all of these things PayPal pay wise

[01:23:39] FAC we pay they all allow you the value proposition is you can expand your network of clientele

[01:23:46] you can get paid from anybody anywhere in the world that is the main value prop at that point

[01:23:52] when now you've understood that and you're looking at the different tools or the different options

[01:23:57] you're now weighing how fast do I need this money you can get it within 24 hours but you're going to pay

[01:24:03] you're gonna pay right and can you afford to get your money within 24 hours no you can't afford it

[01:24:09] well guess what now you're looking at a we pay option you're looking at a pay wise option

[01:24:16] Figaro for Garo is a is a platform but they don't do payments they integrate with FAC or PayPal

[01:24:25] so you're still stuck to whatever rules that you have with FAC or PayPal are utilizing for Garo

[01:24:33] yeah I mean it definitely sounds like we have a lot of work to do just as an ecosystem

[01:24:39] in a digital payments ecosystem because on one on one hand we're talking about the time log to get

[01:24:46] your money and then another hand it took a mode you know malt you have to pay to get your money

[01:24:51] in a within a reasonable time and then you look at other bigger markets where you could get your money

[01:24:57] no virtually for free yeah but you see but this but this is why and and this is why people don't

[01:25:03] understand people don't understand what this card what the color bank card what this means to our

[01:25:11] entire ecosystem the vision of Aldrin rain is that when this goes to the public when your money

[01:25:20] comes into your we pay wallet this is getting pushed to your we pay cards instantaneously that's the

[01:25:30] vision that's the goal so again when this goes out to the public right this is going this is the game

[01:25:38] this is the game changer because now you're using we pay no upfront fees all right just a transaction

[01:25:45] fees and you're getting money as soon as you click withdraw the money's to your we pay wallet if

[01:25:49] you want the money to go to your bank account three to eleven days or withdraw to your we pay

[01:25:55] card and then use that to top to pay chuck it into a machine and withdraw the funds because the funds

[01:26:01] are already on your account however you want to do that so that's the game changer all right so now I

[01:26:07] want to I want to touch on and cast before we started look at the outlook for the industry right

[01:26:12] where should where should go and based on what you just described I think there's a number of things

[01:26:17] we could comment on there all right so let's talk about Republic banks insurance entity

[01:26:23] market back in 2021 and launched and cash now Republic Bank was actually one of the early

[01:26:31] only the earlier investors in we pay in very visionary or Aldrin rain and it's partner Jerry had

[01:26:39] so talk to me about the the end cash that's a little wallet I listen to your podcast on this

[01:26:46] I while listening I held my head but I mean please oh while looking at your blog on it I held

[01:26:53] my head again but you know let's talk about this because I mean ideally when we talk about financial

[01:26:59] technology and what it's supposed to do for us right it's supposed to provide access to financial

[01:27:04] services for those who don't have as much access to financial services it's supposed to provide

[01:27:09] improved customer experience because again we talk about technology versus analog digital or

[01:27:14] walking to a lot to booth with 15k in cash is supposed to improve efficiency through increased

[01:27:22] competition and increased competition is also supposed to reduce the cost of of doing business

[01:27:28] because all of these things all these fees all this extra time these time logs all that I'd

[01:27:32] increased is the cost of doing business right and I mean one of the big things was to provide

[01:27:37] is it enhanced security because again we took on more folks money right and in any event we

[01:27:43] supposed to have more transparency and access information because we used in tech it's supposed to be

[01:27:48] taken all data and using all the data to provide improved customer service and improved

[01:27:55] yeah, improved quality of life just on the for the banking system so talk to me about the

[01:28:00] about Republic Langston's tow wallet and cash so it in today in today's landscape

[01:28:09] it works and it works really well I think when they first launched it in 2021 I think everybody

[01:28:17] downloaded it and deleted it same speed because it was the app was clunky was buggy was super slow

[01:28:24] and just some some people just it just never even worked like a dollar wouldn't even open

[01:28:28] so it was a terrible experience overall and you didn't hear about you didn't hear about

[01:28:33] end cash until you know two years later pretty much right now in the version that end cash is in

[01:28:40] end cash works very well where I think the challenge with end cash is is culture because once again

[01:28:50] we don't have a technology problem we have a we have a people we have a culture problem so now that

[01:28:53] you when when you do actually have a version of end cash that works well why aren't more people

[01:29:00] using it like if I'm if I'm end cash I would be going door to door I would literally be going

[01:29:06] door to door and signing up everybody doesn't it doesn't cost anything to set it up right but it

[01:29:12] now enables you now to get people to take more share of your wallet people are not just going

[01:29:17] to be relying on cash to do business with you right the other I think the other problem with with

[01:29:21] again cultural you said it digital provides accountability and transparency and a lot of businesses

[01:29:29] don't want to be held accountable nor transparent so a lot of business hints a lot of businesses

[01:29:37] are not taking end cash because they don't want to be accountable they don't want to be transparent

[01:29:41] and if there's businesses if we don't have businesses jumping on board for end cash people are not

[01:29:48] people are not using it all right people are not using it but the the app itself works well when

[01:29:55] I do see people using it it's a it's a bit of a toss up I use end cash in very certain very

[01:30:02] certain situations right so I would have to add money to my to my end cash wallet I personally think

[01:30:12] that it should be set up that if my credit card my visa debit card is inside of end cash

[01:30:20] like PayPal you have to connect your PayPal accounts you have to connect your cards to PayPal

[01:30:25] but when you make a purchase or send money PayPal just that just debits the money from your credit card

[01:30:31] right one time instantaneously end cash you have to take an additional step

[01:30:38] to load money into your wallet yes that's a looting thing yeah yes and they charge you

[01:30:46] to load money into the wallet so if I am at a place that accepts end cash but they have a point

[01:30:54] of sale terminal I would never use end cash because I would just whip up my card and tap to pay

[01:31:01] right seamless I'm not being charged to use my money and it's a it's a seamless transaction fast

[01:31:09] of transaction if the person if the if the establishment does not have a a point of sale terminal

[01:31:17] and they only have end cash at that point in time like if I like like you go one with brickyard

[01:31:24] all of the vendors there have end cash thank god again Tony um what's his name is it cow

[01:31:31] Tony talk Tony talk let me tell you yeah cow lion well that's his age yeah I think yeah Chinese laundry

[01:31:40] he's laundry right again made sure that every vendor has end cash right so you can go there

[01:31:47] if the person doesn't have a terminal a point of sale terminal you would load up your money

[01:31:51] and you're in your end cash wallet and then you can stand there to our code and send the money

[01:31:57] that person receives the money now for now right and then they could withdraw the money from your

[01:32:02] end cash wallet and it goes into their bank account so there is a lot of convenience however

[01:32:08] it's only available for TNT so whilst what I just said about one brickyard is very nice

[01:32:15] that convenience is only extended to turn out into big old citizens because if you're a foreigner

[01:32:20] and that's on track greet road close to the oval right across the street from the oval we know

[01:32:25] it's a high traffic area for foreigners foreigners can come there I will be greatly disappointed

[01:32:32] that they cannot use their credit cards to make any payments because not everybody there has

[01:32:37] a point of sale terminal they only have end cash so the fact that end cash does not allow for

[01:32:43] international people is a big deterrent I've seen situations where a fet happened right a fet

[01:32:51] happened and the the fet had a public bank as the one of the main sponsors and they were like

[01:32:59] digital we're going to use end cash for the entire event but the the organizer did not understand

[01:33:05] digital payments so when he signed his agreements that end cash would be the sole digital wallet

[01:33:13] for the fet he was like okay great this is good we can now get money from any and everybody

[01:33:20] but this was a fet during carnival time and then when he realized wait a minute

[01:33:27] this end cash thing this is not this is only for local people but 60 to 70% of the people coming

[01:33:33] in its borders I'm screwed so when he reached out to weepay and we pay kind of looked over

[01:33:41] a contract and they're like well no we're not a digital wallet we are payment facilitator

[01:33:46] we are not in the same bracket as as end cash they had their legal team look it over and they

[01:33:53] realized no it's two different things they then realize okay we could bring we pay in and then

[01:33:59] at the end of it the organizer was like well why what's the value of end cash that's nothing

[01:34:07] that's that's my next question I mean I'm no no shade sorry public bank of course but that's my

[01:34:12] that's my question if I have if we now bring in we pay and we pay we're giving them terminals

[01:34:18] tap to pay terminals that's taking every single card if we cannot accept every single

[01:34:23] there was a value of end cash right so at that at that point in time now now again as

[01:34:30] as as an e-commerce strategist the I can tell you the benefits but then you're going to be

[01:34:36] looking at it you're going to have to really wait so if you're in effect think about it is you're

[01:34:41] in the paint is I you know you're again stinkin dog me right we pay you have to bring your wallet in

[01:34:51] because you got to have your card tap to pay but end cash you just bring your phone in

[01:34:59] uh I mean all right I mean yeah I hate you on that right but but paying flannel

[01:35:04] oh

[01:35:07] so Karen earlier on in this episode you told me you swore a phone to somebody for 15 thousand

[01:35:11] dollars right okay all right so if I if I pay 15 thousand dollars for my phone from Mr.

[01:35:20] Droid and I'm going to in the paint and people are drawing these red paints I want I don't know

[01:35:26] if I'm gonna feel all I come double just because I could you know do my little thing and I pay

[01:35:30] you know but if I have a little card that I could put in a little something whatever okay if I

[01:35:34] got pins on my card once it works there you go so these are the types of things that people are

[01:35:43] weighing when they're talking about their their payment solutions then you're looking at okay is

[01:35:49] this a food event is this because if if take away in the paint let's just say we were at one

[01:35:54] with brigade right where you could just walk with your phone or get in top to pay you're just

[01:35:59] tapping to pay if I'm at in the paint I'm thinking do I want to walk with my card I want to

[01:36:04] walk my wallet and walk with my phone I might own I might have my phone anyway because I might be

[01:36:09] taking but those are things that people are going to be thinking about but then as an organizer

[01:36:14] as a as a company like like a public bank like these are the things that you've got to have to kind

[01:36:18] of sell people on and think about consumer behavior at that particular point in time right so I

[01:36:28] would always rather have my bank card and tap to pay I would always rather I would always I would

[01:36:34] always rather do that because you could always replace your bank card right so that's the

[01:36:40] types of thing that we're talking about and you're and you're weighing when you're thinking about

[01:36:44] those solutions no for sure for sure I mean I'm talking very much for those for that but I

[01:36:49] didn't say that to those four players there and those four products and and then and then just

[01:36:55] just to end the point then you really start thinking about you know what is the value of end cash

[01:37:02] right if the people have other solutions to take payments yeah I mean so I'm looking on the

[01:37:11] only business side I'm thinking on the investor side if somebody wants to finance a player

[01:37:16] or an up and coming player in this market or if somebody who can just start a business

[01:37:22] in this market we know where is the value right so from the digital wallet business model you

[01:37:28] describe where you where do you use our love to pay load fees and transfer fees and whatnot and

[01:37:34] its own you only able to spend how much you load your only able to load a certain amount so you

[01:37:40] restricted in transaction size and all that you're you're so restricted in use cases

[01:37:45] and then if I'm to put on my investor hand all right so how far so we talk about digital wallets

[01:37:52] in the Caribbean talk more loads and all the restrictions and all that investment is a number scheme

[01:37:58] in large part right so if you have that restricted population so if I traded that a lot of restriction

[01:38:05] or one point right is 1.4 million dollar population let's say you have adoption of 10% to be generous

[01:38:12] so 140,000 people have it you talk about low transaction volume it's not going to get an investor

[01:38:18] excited but if you're talking about payment facilitator which we pay is where no matter what data

[01:38:25] is allowed you to make payments it could be online offline you might you have the new bank is just

[01:38:30] going to come out soon or whatnot I think then you're playing in the then your your addressable

[01:38:36] market is centrality transaction volume that takes place in within and from the Caribbean so I think

[01:38:43] he looking at a bigger market there so I mean as we got to the and that's why that's why Mr. Wayne

[01:38:50] has never been worried yeah no he's very calm because the decisions that the decisions that

[01:38:59] the other players are making are not remotely coming close to what they are putting together and again

[01:39:07] the decisions that they have made in end cash there's a lot of things that you have to take into

[01:39:12] consideration but we the consumer we don't want to we don't want to think about any of those things

[01:39:17] we just want to tap to pay right abroad and I'm sure you probably seeing this the banks allow

[01:39:24] you to connect your virtual bank cards to your devices your watch your phone you don't have to load

[01:39:30] nothing you just tap to pay and that's that yeah but I mean I would say on the end cash friends so

[01:39:37] reprobble bank as a whole bank is the biggest bank in the arguably the biggest bank in the Caribbean

[01:39:42] region so I don't think they're necessarily worried from in that standpoint but if you're to look

[01:39:47] on the pure and cash standpoint then I think they have some move to do yeah we see and again this is

[01:39:53] this is this if there was a if there was somebody at the helm that understood the payment space and

[01:40:00] understood e-commerce and understood the growth of the word that's could go and that would look

[01:40:04] completely different it would move completely different public bank we have somebody here who you

[01:40:11] need you should probably put on your payroll I think two people I think you bring in I think you

[01:40:18] bring it at Kevin Valley I think you I think you bring that in oh well maybe we'll see we can talk

[01:40:26] we can talk I've seen what you said only on the HR and hiring industry but you know that's another

[01:40:31] podcast but all right so all right lastly in line with with the research objectives which I outlined

[01:40:40] earlier right how do you see the future of digital payment shaping up internet to be good and I

[01:40:48] guess throughout the broader region and what opportunities do you foresee for business owners and

[01:40:54] investors in this sector hmm so that's a very it's a very good question I think the biggest hurdle

[01:41:04] for us is to get people using the technology that we already have right we haven't taken advantage of

[01:41:12] the tools that we that we all ready have so to just start to add new technology because I think

[01:41:21] that's what I think that's where we are headed to I think we're just going to start adding new

[01:41:25] technology new features new things and people haven't even understand step one all right so because

[01:41:34] the lack of public education is happening I think we're going to be in a situation where we're

[01:41:39] going to have more technology than we know what to do with and it's going to be underutilized

[01:41:46] tremendously because nobody's taking a time out to properly and thoroughly educate both the

[01:41:53] businesses as to how to integrate this into your business processes because ecommerce has its

[01:42:00] own workflow it has its own business processes that are very different than your normal day-to-day

[01:42:06] business processes for transactions offline it's very different the behaviors of people to get

[01:42:12] them to buy something online are very very different than somebody trying to make a purchase with

[01:42:18] you in offline right so one the education of the business sector has to happen and it hasn't happened

[01:42:26] it's not happening at all and I'm really worried about that the second thing is

[01:42:32] businesses are not investing in a lot of new tech because they're looking at like okay so let's

[01:42:38] just say I invest into all this ecommerce let's and let's say I invest in the team to manage

[01:42:44] and push our ecommerce because these are new people these are new skills that need to be added to

[01:42:50] the company so more payroll more overheads okay we add all this stuff do is do we have the client

[01:42:57] tell to balance this out do people know how to shop online and that is another big hurdle because

[01:43:05] look we're in September now up to Kevin up to July of this year first citizen's bank was now

[01:43:14] had a notice on the website saying hey as of July 15th the old links cards the maven shop cards are

[01:43:21] no longer effective you can only use the new card right so that just happened we still have

[01:43:32] the majority of the population who does not know how to use their new visa debit cards online

[01:43:40] so we're going to get all this new technology right we're seeing it coming we're hearing a lot of

[01:43:46] names coming out but we're going to have a lot of new technology but the public education has to

[01:43:52] happen aggressively and happen fast because institutions are already starting in the hole where

[01:43:59] there's no trust or very low trust they're going to have to start educating people in order to

[01:44:04] learn how to utilize these things and I'm not going to get everybody but if you can move the

[01:44:09] if you can get 15% of the population utilize them all the digital tools that now it's going to start

[01:44:15] to free up your offline stores your the banking lines are going to go down it's going to start to

[01:44:22] free up a lot of things but I think the opportunity gap is the businesses that do learn e-commerce

[01:44:28] who are probably struggling or trying their best to make all their money through traditional means

[01:44:35] or you're trying to we know that in Trinidad right now everybody's complaining about the cost of living

[01:44:39] people haven't got any raises salaries haven't gone up since 2013 some people 2005 all kind

[01:44:46] of madness right people don't have the disposable income that they did if you're a business and

[01:44:51] you're only relying on the money you can get from Trinidad the opportunity for your business now is

[01:44:58] to start to open your brand up in your business up to the global market so you can still get people

[01:45:05] locally but now you're tapping into the international marketplace to start gaining commerce and

[01:45:10] internationally so I think that's the biggest opportunity gap now I want every business to know

[01:45:16] you're not limited to just Trinidad you've been in Trinidad for how long there was a point in time

[01:45:22] where you realize yo the majority of your money is coming from outside of Trinidad

[01:45:28] outside of Trinidad the majority of the people who signed my checks are not in Trinidad so if we

[01:45:35] were limited if we were limited to only the money we can make in Trinidad it's been solved

[01:45:42] we would have been hurting you know it would have been rough you know I remember I think a year

[01:45:49] or two ago where you're like hey I have I have multiple currencies accounts okay

[01:45:53] I get paid and I get paid and finished dollars I get paid and I take it everything

[01:46:03] um man that is the e-commerce really is the great equalizer to me like the internet

[01:46:10] the internet was the great equalizer and I think the evolution of that now is e-commerce

[01:46:15] where now you really can get paid from any and everybody anywhere in the world at any time of

[01:46:21] the day and Caribbean businesses have not realized that is yet we have the technology right more

[01:46:27] it's coming or you need to learn how the technology works so that you can integrate into your business

[01:46:33] and now all the new fancy features and things that are coming out those are just going to be add-ons

[01:46:39] or you already have your your business practices in place

[01:46:43] 100 percent you know I think the key takeaways there's really that we need to incentivize adoption

[01:46:49] of these on need to talk payment systems you need to I might do it and so doing will need to

[01:46:55] increase education of this so that's why what you do is so important I mean I look at your content

[01:47:02] you're I'm I'm I sent some of your content to my to my research team when I'm in preparing this

[01:47:07] research you know I really just did that while you were talking I know and that is always that's

[01:47:15] always funny to hear it and dope to hear because Kevin I have seen my content in the strangest

[01:47:23] places I have seen my content show up in court documents I have seen it being used in central bank

[01:47:31] documents I have seen it being circulated in engineering industries it's been amazing to see

[01:47:40] where all of this talk about digital marketing e-commerce building a digital presence see like

[01:47:49] it's just everything is just been it's been a really amazing to see where all the information shows

[01:47:53] up and it's it's been it's been great so again if we started off talking about why I made the switch

[01:47:59] I would have never have made this impact talking about smartphones to the city impact and the

[01:48:04] sea where it's going and the opportunities that it's been creating for me has really been special

[01:48:10] let me ask you this what is the most important thing that we did not touch on in this in this episode

[01:48:18] the most important thing we did not touch on I think we covered the main the main things right to me

[01:48:31] the main things to really push e-commerce and digital payments within this space is one the education

[01:48:42] because we have a lot of technology it's not being utilized already and then I think I mean this

[01:48:47] and this is where I think this is a conversation with the all wins the Chris Burns we don't know what

[01:48:53] the limitations are of the central banks we don't know what we don't know what's keeping back a

[01:49:00] lot of the progress right so me I will speak on what is available and I will teach on what we can use

[01:49:07] and if we have if there's work around because we're getting blocked for certain things I try to find

[01:49:13] those things out but I think I think the biggest thing that we did not cover but the conversation

[01:49:19] would be for me would be what is it keep back with a lot of the technology that because again

[01:49:27] we spoke about the color card why don't we what is holding back the color card why do I have a

[01:49:33] physical card but the rest of the of the Caribbean doesn't what is holding us back and I think that

[01:49:41] conversation needs to get needs to be geared towards the tech guys you know who's running the

[01:49:47] companies what is holding me back and also legally like if there's if there's a lawyer that is specializing

[01:49:54] in the financial industry into FinTech you know I would love to hear the conversation about

[01:50:00] legally what is happening what is holding us back because it just feels like there's red tape

[01:50:06] upon red tape upon red tape but we're not getting the answers as to why the red tape is there or what

[01:50:13] are you doing to start to change things we hear like the other day minister of minister of finance

[01:50:20] of China Tobago minister finance minister finance jumps in parliament and was asked a question about

[01:50:30] when are we going to get digital checks and the checks is what what they were referring to is

[01:50:37] and I'm I mean I'm sure you've probably seen it the checks is how with with the banking apps

[01:50:43] abroad you could go into that you can go into the app if you get a check a physical check you take

[01:50:50] a picture of the check and that deposits the money all right and mr. imber it's like we're not ready

[01:51:00] full stop we're not ready we have no plans we have no plans of pulling that into trend

[01:51:08] that we are not ready we don't have the the framework or the legal stuff we're not ready we're

[01:51:13] not doing it but sir it's your job to get us ready and because that's the mindset of the people

[01:51:23] in in in the real powers of decision making again we're how about you're limited into what can

[01:51:30] be done so for our conversation as to you know what is available how does things work I then

[01:51:36] recovered it the next the next iteration this conversation needs to be what is holding us back

[01:51:41] there's a lot of basic things like the like the digital imaging of checks why isn't this why

[01:51:47] isn't this a matter of utmost importance you know most people are lining up every day to go into

[01:51:54] deposit a check whether it be at the ATM or in the fast deposit that's still traffic coming into

[01:52:03] that's still traffic on the roads we don't take into consideration that because we are not a digital

[01:52:08] society this adds so much volume to traffic being on the road this adds physical traffic into your

[01:52:17] banks into your stores that dot that doesn't need to happen right so we want to talk about traffic

[01:52:24] management we need to talk talk we need to start talking about digitizing digitization of so many

[01:52:29] of these services that would then take people off the roads all right so the legal conversation of

[01:52:37] fintech I think is a major conversation because we need to understand what is keeping us back and why

[01:52:43] isn't the government getting us ready because they're paying a lot of lip service but there's still a

[01:52:49] lot of legal stuff that has to get worked out and then from from a technology standpoint I would

[01:52:55] love to hear about you know what is next and what is holding innovation back within the Caribbean

[01:53:01] because we don't have a Venmo we won't have Zell what are these things we don't have any of that right

[01:53:09] oh god it's life you know and apparently the loading of the cards apparently the loading of the cards

[01:53:15] with end cash is a legal thing not a technology thing it's a legal thing main thing that's keeping us

[01:53:21] back me and aside for aside from adoption and education is regulation essentially all right that

[01:53:28] is typing innovation so the public education is a big thing because we're not we're not even

[01:53:34] we're not even using what we already have but in terms of the innovation of products the conversation

[01:53:40] always comes back to the legality and what can be done under the rules that we currently have in place

[01:53:48] and then you know what is the government doing to change a lot of those rules to help us move forward

[01:53:55] so that's really where I think the conversation I'm still going next and again that's conversations

[01:54:00] that I would love to hear because you know what's next I don't know what's next when the legal framework

[01:54:07] is still the same podcast will be under the trophy and subscribe to the file you have to file

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[01:54:31] we are out he knows it he knows it too well all right till next episode guys